If so, great. We’re on the same page. Now maybe we can talk about what would be the most compassionate way to deal with these good and decent people seeking to better their lives. I totally agree with you that we need to process the people who are here in some way so that we know who is here.

It seems to me that the bill produced by the Senate is going in the right direction to do this. What do you think?

Dave

To turn our words into doomsday predictions is simply making another FALSE allegation because you are reading our words INCORRECTLY. The pattern continues. And then you call it defensiveness. BTW, When did you stop beating your wife? Get the point now?

Again, Nobody here is intentionally or unintentionally implying NOR stating directly that MOST aliens are here to commit crimes and leech off our welfare system.

WE are telling you Dave that that is a false allegation. False. Patently false because we know what we are saying.

Again, we are simply responding to leftists including yourself who seem to think that they are ONLY here to better their lives and earn a living and work hard. THAT isn’t true either. We give you examples and statistics and you want to quibble and THEN act like we are saying they are all criminals (well yes coming here illegally is a criminal act but besides that). We aren’t saying that and again it is a FALSE allegation.

It’s either you move on from false allegations or we keep repeating the same sentences.

In answer to these questions, “So, do you mean you believe SOME are here to work and make a better life? How many? A few, a bunch, many, most, nearly all? Which is it?” …. Do you remember I said that is IRRELEVANT. It doesn’t matter. They are here illegally and shoul dcome through to this country legally. We are the most generous nation on earth and allow more legal immigrants than all other countries combined. For the SAKE of national security we need to secure our borders and process all the people who are here in some fashion so that we know who is here. That doesn’t mean hard working Mexicans or anything as liberals like yourself like to inject into the argument. It means EVERYONE who is here illegally.

Dave wrote, “Judging by the comments and the furor and the defensiveness, and the doomsday predictions, I think it was perfectly reasonable of me to assume that you think MOST illegal aliens are coming here to commit crimes and destroy our country, not to work hard and find a better life.”

No. It wasn’t reasonable.

dave wrote, “If I’m wrong, just tell me. Just say, “Dave, you’re wrong.”

Dave, you are wrong.

dave asked us to say, “I think most are here to make a better life for themselves and their families”

It is IRRELEVANT. It doesn’t matter. Of course MOST human beings are GOOD and DECENT people. Rules are important. I gave you the library scenario for a reason. It doesn’t matter that 2% of the people steal books to better their lives. It SHOULDN’T be allowed. ON top of that we are in post 9/11. National Security matters. It isn’t just economics. It’s security as well. As well as the toll on human lives (morality). I posted a Yahoo News story where women routinely (not rarely) get raped risking thier lives to come here and multiple times. They think of it as the price they have to pay. Are you for that Dave? Or are you for securing the border and asking the women to come here legally and safely?

Let me just say. It’s ok to disagree. You might disagree that national security is important and that we should be more generous than we already are. But you don’t need to level false allegations. It continues with you for some reason. It’s the pattern of a leftist to level false allegations concerning conservatives. It’s as if you read what we write incorrectly or something. Communication takes two people but you’d think after telling you for the umpteenth time that your allegation concerning us is incorrect that you’d listen.

But I’m really more disturbed by the following comments accusing me of being dishonest and misusing statistics. The statement that 75% of federal cases against illegal immigrants are over the crime of entering illegally was quoted right out of the paper published by the Bureau of Justice Statistics. If it’s factually incorrect, then the error is theirs, not mine.

Baklava wrote that “17% of felons in federal prisons are illegal immigrants who are there for violent crimes.” He says he was only grammatically incorrect, but the truth is he was factually incorrect. If 17% of all felons in federal prisons are illegal immigrants who are there for violent crimes, then the total number of illegal immigrants in federal prisons would be incredibly high. Being a math teacher, I knew this could not be right. So I looked for an unbiased statistic (I knew you would not trust a number from an immigration advocacy group, just as I don’t trust numbers from conservative immigration reform groups). The Bureau of Justice Statistics says that 1.5% of ALL illegal immigrant defendants were sentenced for violent crimes. It’s impossible for a smaller percentage of a sub group to make up a larger percentage of the whole group. Just to make the numbers easier to work with, let’s say there were 1000 prisoners in federal jails. 17% would be 170. Now that 170 are the 1.5% of illegal immigrants who were sentenced for violent crimes, as stated above–not by me, but by the BJS. If 1.5% = 170, then 100% equals 11,333. There’s only 1000 people in the jail, so 11,333 of them can’t be illegal aliens. The 17% figure was wrong. It turns out that 17% of the prisoners represents ALL illegal aliens–not just ones who committed violent crimes, but all of them together. Further research from unbiased sources revealed that out of this 17%, roughly 1.5% were sentenced for violent crime, and a full 75% were sentenced because of having entered the country illegally. So it’s really 1.5% of 17%, or 0.25% of ALL federal prisoners who are illegal aliens that were sentenced for violent crimes.

Does that mean only that number committed violent crime? No. I am only saying that’s the number sentenced. Certainly the total number of crimes committed is greater than the numbers in jail because some don’t get reported, some don’t get caught, and some get caught but get acquitted. So I am NOT trying to mislead anyone into thinking that this is the total number of immigrants who commit violent crimes. It’s only the number that got caught and sentenced in a particular year. It certainly does not confirm the number cited by Baklava. Whether or not Baklava intended to mislead, the figure was vastly misleading. Even if there were 2 million felons in federal prisons, the number of illegal immigrant violent offenders, according to the BJS percentage, would be 5,000. That’s hugely exaggerated, by the way, just to make the point. There are approximately 2 million prisoners in total in the U.S., including state and local jails (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/corr2.htm).

Now, you’ve accused me of trickery when I respond about the 75%. Here’s why I’m saying it. You’re throwing out the figure that 30% of the federal prison population is comprised of illegal aliens, which you get from a web site with a clear bias–but let’s forget that for the moment. That web site holds this up against the percentage of illegals in the total population of the US. It says, “hey look, there are only 4% in the whole population, but in the prisons, they make up 30%.” There is only one reason to do this: They want you to think that illegal aliens are more prone to commit federal crimes than people with passports and visas. But the comparison is totally fallacious! Federal prisons only deal with certain types of cases that fall within federal jurisdiction. Immigration offenses are one of those areas of federal jurisdiction, so it is not unusual that a large percent of its prisoners are there for immigration offenses. But according to the federal prisons themselves, of that number, 75% are there for the crime of entering illegally. My point again is not to say that this isn’t a crime–it certainly is. But it’s not murder, or rape, or theft, or drug dealing, or weapons. It’s just crossing the border illegally–a crime, but not a violent one.

And finally, you accuse me of making false allegations–namely, that I’m saying you said that ALL aliens are here to commit crimes, and that you have no compassion. I don’t claim that you are saying all aliens are here to commit crimes and leech off our welfare system; I allege that you are intentionally implying that MOST aliens are here to commit crimes and leech off our welfare system. In your last post, you said, “We are all saying the same thing. There AREN’T all here to just work and make a better life.” Your use of capitals clearly says you want me to know that you don’t believe they are all here to work and make a better life. So, do you mean you believe SOME are here to work and make a better life? How many? A few, a bunch, many, most, nearly all? Which is it?

Judging by the comments and the furor and the defensiveness, and the doomsday predictions, I think it was perfectly reasonable of me to assume that you think MOST illegal aliens are coming here to commit crimes and destroy our country, not to work hard and find a better life.

If I’m wrong, just tell me. Just say, “Dave, you’re wrong. I don’t believe that MOST illegal aliens are here to do all that. I think most are here to make a better life for themselves and their families. But some of them are not good people, and we should do something to separate the good from the bad.”

One final comment to Mahwah. I appreciate your input. On that last post, where you cited from the Conservative Voice about the arrest rates. You said their offenses included sex offenses, homicides, drug offenses, robberies and burglaries, but you didn’t say what the breakdown was. I mean, if 300,000 out of the 700,000 crimes were murders, that would be one thing. If 100 were murders, that would be quite another. You see what I mean? But given the numbers from the BJS, I imagine the numbers in this case would be similar. Without the numbers, though, it’s impossible to draw any accurate and verifiable conclusion other than to say that this is a population that runs up against the law a lot. Well, given the fact that their very presence here is a crime, that is not so unusual. I’m sure they live in neighborhoods where there is a pretty strong police presence, and they are scrutinized very closely. There clearly is a correlation in our country between a persons’ race and their likelihood of being stopped, questioned, and arrested by the police. It’s not always justified, and police departments all over the country are working on eliminating racial bias from the way they do their jobs. A good friend of mine is a retired captain from a metropolitan police force who does training to help officers recognize and overcome racial stereotypes and bias. He’s no wimp, either, and he’ll tell you it’s not about being politically correct, but about creating a more effective and cohesive police force.

On April 7, 2005, the US Justice Department issued a report on criminal aliens that were incarcerated in federal and state prisons and local jails. The report contained information on the number of criminal aliens incarcerated, their country of citizenship or country of birth, and the cost to incarcerate them. Congress also requested that the Government Accounting Office provide information on the criminal history of aliens incarcerated in federal and state prisons or local jails who had entered the country illegally.

These illegals committed numerous crimes including sex offenses, homicides, drug offenses, robberies, burglaries and others.

That’s a little misleading, dave. When you look at the big picture, and the costs involved with the illegal immigrant problem, you can see clearly that the U.S. cannot fiscally withstand this onslaught. Here’s some statistics from NumbersUSA.com. See the rest of the article at: http://www.numbersusa.com/hottopic/2454talkingpts.html

“COSTS

Federal law mandates that hospital emergency rooms treat any person who seeks care. The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) found, in 2004, that annual costs to treat uninsured illegal aliens run to approximately $2.2 billion. Recent Federal efforts to reimburse hospitals for uncompensated care notwithstanding, recovering unpaid costs has been exceptionally difficult and has caused the ruin of numerous healthcare facilities. According to a report in the Spring 2005 issue of the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons, 84 hospitals in California alone are closing as a direct consequence of the rising number of illegal aliens and their non-reimbursed tax on the system.
(note: this is very true as well in Arizona. Many of the hospitals here in the Phoenix area operate in Bancruptcy due to the illegals getting free health care.)

In 2004, an estimated 27 percent of the federal prison population was comprised of illegal aliens, though illegal aliens account for about 4 percent of the overall U.S. population. GAO found the cost to the federal prisons is an estimated $1.2 billion for 2004.

(note: the latest statistics estimate it to be over 30% now.)

The Social Security system will worsen, not improve, under an amnesty. These low-income workers are unlikely to pay enough in payroll taxes to support current beneficiaries. When amnestied workers retire, they will collect far more in Social Security payments than they ever paid into the system.

Estimates suggest it would cost $5 billion to install triple fence covering the entire 2,000 miles of the Southwestern border. That cost is much less than the economic cost of illegal immigration to California alone for one year. When Sen. Jon Kyl (R-AZ) recently asked Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-CA) how effective the fence has been in California, she said it was so effective that it forced most of the illegal aliens to cross through Arizona.”

Others covered this for me. But then you went on to say, “I was refuting the misuse of the statistic to decieve people into believing that all illegal immigrants are habitual criminals, or congenitally criminal.”

Putting aside that they are here “illegally” I have said Dave that it DOESN’T matter if they are hard working or just trying to better their lives. If you take a book from a library without checking it out the system breaks down even IF you are taking a diet book and you are 300 lbs. Additionally with your use of the word “all” you are mistating anything I was trying to do. I at the most was gramattically incorrect when talking about hte prison population being 17% illegal immigrants that you did verify. Thanks for verifying that my statistic was correct. That costs money. Lots of money. Money that wasn’t contributed over the years by a legal citizen being taxed. It is breaking down the system much like stealing books from a library. I don’t know what is so hard to understand that. Estimates are 25% of the kids did not show up to school on that Monday in LA. That would be tons more money (in the billions) not going to debt and bonds (due to the defecit mess CA is in. That would be a healthier fiscal picture that CA would be in. It would enable CA to reprioritize and invest in people here legally and working hard to teach, fight fires, provide social and health services, etc. But it’s breaking down the system like I said and pulling money from those areas. Even a bunch of liberals recognize this. Like Paul Krugman. You can have a heart and be generous and giving but if you devise a system where the system is broken (like allowing people to steal books or other resources) then your generosity and heart cannot be matched or kept up with. You’d have to rely on utopia to work and it doesn’t.

Dave asked, “With hard questions like these, I often ask, “What would Jesus, or Ghandi, or Martin Luther King do?” ”

Well, I’d imagine that you are like them…. But all the imagination aside… the normal american woudln’t stand for people not coming into thier home legally. Guns would be drawn even in some cases no matter how squemish it made you. Guns have made lots of burglars stop cold and jump right back out of the window they came in. Even knives have done that. I had a friend who had a burglar jump away with a wielded knife. Yet Dave acts all Ghandiish and MLKish and Jesusish and raises the patriotism question. It’s not about patriotism. It’s about common sense. It’s about a measured doable generosity. It’s why I keep mentioning that we allow more legal immigrants than all other countries combines so why must we allow illegal immigrants as well? You don’t give sandwiches to burglars. You don’t not try to enforce the rules at a library. We are a nation with rules and the rules should be obeyed. Anarchy is not an option towards prosperity and opportunity for the people who need opportunity. Anarchy takes opportunity away or at least diminishes it.

DAVE MISUSED Statistics ROYALLY by saying, ““Fifty percent of those charged with immigration offenses during 2000 were accused of reentering the country illegally, 25 percent with improper entry””

What is the 100% Dave? It isn’t the 17%.. It is 100% of those who are charged with immigration offenses. That is a totally DIFFERENT number. It’s good to “care” but when liberals misuse statistics like this and act like we don’t “care” it is just plain WRONG. That 100% number could be .01% of the 17%. You don’t know. And… You didn’t recognize that you purposefully misused statistics on accident. — being funny here.

Dave continues on a different plane than Sanity, PCD and I by saying, “does anyone else agree that to judge an entire group of people based on the actions of a small number of individuals of that group is unfair as well as totally illogical?”

Nobody here is judging an entire group based on the actions of a small number. We are all saying the same thing. There AREN’T all here to just work and make a better life. AND EVEN if they WERE it doesn’t matter. You don’t allow libary book stealers to continue and you don’t allow illegal immigration to continue even if 99% are just trying to better their lives. It’s SIMPLE. We are not saying what you are alleging and if you want to win a debate at least listen to what the person who is debating you is saying and respond to that. Nobody is doing what you allege. We are simply responding to liberals including yourself that they are ALL here to work and make a better life. THEN… Once we respond you say, “Hey stop judging the entire population on 5 individuals.” It’s an assissinine way of debating that makes you look foolish. It’s isn’t making us look prejudicial because we aren’t and didn’t say what you are alleging.

And for Bang and Sanity to have had to defend themselves from your charge is just the same ole tired pattern of liberals judging/accusing/alleging and conservatives defending. You as a liberal should STOP making false allegations. Learn from your supposed idols of Ghandi and MLK and Jesus. Did they make false allegations continuously like this? It’s not enought that the left has “good intentions” but they must also make false allegations that conservatives “don’t care” or are mean spirited. Wow aren’t we debating now.

dave said, “I smoked pot”

Same as my neighbor liberal and another poster named Tommy that couldn’t put two common sensical thoughts together but went on with false allegations. Rise above what it did to your brains. You can do it.

Dave said, “Should all compassion be withheld from me?”

Nobody said people shouldn’t be compassionate. Stop treating us as if we have none. You don’t have to allow library book stealers to continue to show your compassion and act like those in favor of rules (to keep the compassionate system intact) are uncompassionate. Rise above. Look at us as compassionate people who are trying to keep a generous nation generous able to pass a great nation to our grandkids.

Where I think we are disagreeing is on how we react to the one crime that all illegal aliens are guilty of–entering the country improperly. Let me say it again, ALL illegal aliens are guilty of this crime.

So now what? We have to make some choices about how to respond to this. I’m with you, Sanity. Deportation is an option we would be completely justified in using; I just don’t think it makes sense, for the reasons that you gave and for many others.

I favor taking people who obviously want to be here and making it possible for them to become productive, involved citizens. I think leaving things as they are tends to keep people in poverty and poorly educated, and that ends up costing us. Instead of using our money to arrest and incarcerate, track and deport those already here, forcing them to live “underground”, I would rather we put that money to use getting these people integrated into the society. That would be an investment rather than a drain.

I would ask you all to consider if you have ever broken the law, and under what circumstances? And if you have, what do you think should be your punishment? I know I have broken the law–I have shoplifted as a kid, I smoked pot, I have exceeded the speed limit, driven when I shouldn’t have because I’d been drinking. Anybody else want to step up? Should I be exiled? locked up? Should all compassion be withheld from me? Am I no longer worthy of belonging to this society? Do I have nothing positive to contribute because of these screw ups? I’m not asking for anyone to tell me that those things weren’t bad and wrong, but I’d rather be judged by my successes than my failures. Wouldn’t you?

We’re having the same kinds of conversations that Americans have had since the beginning. It’s all about what kind of society we want to have.

No one judges all illegal aliens by the crimes committed by some, BUT to say crime is not being committed by illegals is also a falacy that you and others wish to disregard. We have more gangs that are spreading out across the US. Just because they are not in jail does not mean they have not committed crimes (those that do).

Hell police have their hands tied with these stupid ‘sanctuary’ cities where it is illegal for them to arrest known criminal because they are illegal immigrants. They KNOW they are illegals, they know they are gangbangers, and they still can’t touch them.

Then you have the whole liberal PC agenda taking hold of this too, calling them undocumented. What they are is ILLEGAL ALIENS. It is not going to kill people to say it. Quit making it sound like they are american citizens without a drivers license. That is the image I get when I think of an undocumented worker, someone with no SSN or Drivers License. What they are Mexican (mostly) Citizens that have come into America ILLEGALLY.

They have broken our laws, so right there, if you really want to argue symantecs, every single illegal alien out there is a criminal. They have started off their wish for a better life with a criminal act and now they wish to be rewarded for it.

I am not for a complete removal of all illegals, I am one of those that feel that is impossible and to much of a drain on our resources to do effectively. But I am a FIRM believer in stopping the flow first. Dam breaks, you fix the dam before dealing with the washouts. So we fix our border security, build a wall, secure our borders, THEN we untie the hands of the police, quit making it so damn hard to arrest those who are criminals and are illegals.

Once we secure the border, stop the flow, then we deal with the criminals, remove them from our country and ship them back to where they came, if they manage to come back they get felony sentences. The ones that come here to suck off the government teat on welfare and such, need ot either get to work or go back. We do not want those who wish to stay on welfare, so this means a decent welfare reform system so that we do not have long term leeches sucking away.

Those that wish to work, grant them temporary government or guest worker status, and if they are able to keep clean, are not arrested or envolved in any crime, I say give them a chance, allow them to have enough time to start the process of gaining citizenship LEGALLY.

I do not buy into the if we remove them all (deport) that the economy will fail or it will make lettuce 20 dollars a head, or as Geraldo said, “$20 a head of bannanas”. *rools eyes at that stupid remark* (it’s a bunch of bannanas Geraldo, not a head).

Deporting them all is not the answer, but stopping the flow for one is; then nailing companies that hire illegals so hard that it will hurt them worse to hire illegals more than it will hiring a American citizen; then getting rid of the criminals is next; then reforming welfare and governmental services is next.

It is a daunting task, but it is all determined on how much willpower our American Citizens have and how much spine our Government officials have.

Those Government officials who do not act on the will of the people, need to be actively be removed from office.

- I’ll use the number 11 million, although living here in So. Cal, every time I see it it makes me laugh. We in the state know there are more than 15 to 18 millon in the LA basin alone, never mind the rest of the states, but the politicians don’t want to alarm the public with anything like the true numbers.

- Whatever the number, all of them that are undocumented have either overstayed their work visit permits, visa’a whatever, or crossed the border illegally, with no authorization to be here whatsoever, which makes them “undocumented illegal aliens”. If you want to argue that the laws are unfair, inhumane, etc etc, thats your privaledge, but to say they’re not law breakers is just nonsense.

- There are two claims being made that are just silly. One, that they Constitutional rights as if they’re legal American citizens. They have no such rights, only human rights by the Geneva convention rules, and the sole claim they could make is for “political refuge”. Few if any are even aware of that, and I personally wish they were to outright embarrass that moron Fox. You can bet if they started seeking “refuge” Mr Fox would sing an entirely different tune. Hes a disgrace.

- Secondly that we are racist for wanting to enforce our own laws on the borders as if we have no soveriegnty as a Nation. Of course thats the influence of the hard left in the mix. You want to drown out opposing views just yell rascist as loud as you can, no matter what the issues. Total leftist BS.

- In the mean time both political parties keep trying to wait each other out, neither side wanting to be the “bad guy” with strong legislation, and possibly lose hispanic support/votes, while the rest of the majority of America gets angrier and angrier.

- Bang

“Fifty percent of those charged with immigration offenses during 2000 were accused of reentering the country illegally, 25 percent with improper entry”

I cited federal prison statistics specifically because Baklava had given an unattributable statistic about violent offenders in federal prisons. I wanted to clarify it, and what I found out from the very people who do the arresting and locking up is that the number is nowhere near what Baklava’s first post implied. Only 1.5% of federally prosecuted case involving illegal immigrants were for violent crimes. (This is documented in my post above. It’s at http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/fedtyptab.htm)

You’re absolutely right that we base our positions on facts. So, your assertion that “illegals in city and state lockups are in for actual crimes, and not jaywalking, either” also needs to be backed up. I haven’t found a source yet that separates out and combines city and state statistics, but if you have please share it. All I found so far was the statistic that 17% of all prisoners (federal, state, and city) were illegal immigrants. I found that many of those at the federal level are there for the crime of entering improperly, so we need to find out the disposition of those in state and city prisons. There’s no doubt that some have committed violent crimes. People are people. But I don’t think the facts support any basis for the claim that illegal immigrants are coming here to commit crimes. Quite the opposite. There’s clearly a concern about the use of illegal immigrants for cheap labor, so obviously the vast majority are here to work.

Sanity can post the names of five people who committed murders with a description of their despicable crimes. But if I were to judge 11 million on the actions of those five, it would be absurd and irrational. In fact, even the document that Sanity him/herself pointed to says this:

“Despite some perceptions that immigrants account
for a large proportion of crime, much of the global
crime in America is committed by a relatively small
percentage of the immigrant population, legal and
illegal. Nevertheless, such perceptions have led to a
growing number of hate crimes and other retaliatory attacks by those who are
not willing to accept what may be termed the changing face of America.”

So, getting back to my idea of trying to find common ground, does anyone else agree that to judge an entire group of people based on the actions of a small number of individuals of that group is unfair as well as totally illogical?

The Internationalization of Criminal Justice (PDF Format)

Some examples:

On April 29, 2002 Armando Garcia, a Mexican national illegally in California, shot and killed Los Angeles County Deputy Sheriff David March during a routine traffic stop.

Garcia, thrice deported and previously charged on two counts of attempted murder, fled to Mexico.

Mexico has become a safe haven for many nationals who commit violent crime in the U.S. For the price of a bus ticket the lowest of the low can breathe free in Mexico. Here are a few examples:

* Daniel Perez who shot his estranged wife and killed her father. Perez had prior convictions for attempted first-degree murder, spousal battery, kidnapping and stalking.

* Alvaro Luna Jara is charged with the murder of a 12-year-old boy and the attempted murder of three others. Although Jara is not a Mexican national, Mexico refused to extradite him because his parents are.

* Juan Manuel Casillas shot (in the back) and killed his 17-year-old ex-girl friend and her 15-year-old female cousin on their way to high-school

* Father Nicolas Aguilar Rivera, a Roman Catholic priest, who is charged with 19 counts of child molestation.

Los Angeles County officials estimate that from L.A. alone more than 60 suspected killers have fled to Mexico for sanctuary.

Link

Amazingly, the U.S. federal government, despite written requests from all 50 states’ attorney generals, has not lifted a finger to help.

Recently, Cooley visited Attorney General John Ashcroft to plead his case. Follow-up letters to Ashcroft, Secretary of State Colin Powell, Senators Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein and all other 98 U.S. Senators have been mostly ignored.

California Assemblyman Keith Richman introduced Assembly Joint Resolution 51 urging the Public Safety Committee to recognize the importance of extraditing criminals back to California. The measure failed when Democrats Carl Washington, Jackie Goldberg and Fred Keeley voted against.

Said Richman, “It is outrageous that we cannot get unanimous support for this measure.”

Maurizi, who addressed the P.S.C., insisted “California stand up to demand action by our Federal government to prevent the infringement on our sovereign right to protect our citizens and prosecute and punish for crimes committed on our soil.”

If the federal government isn’t interested in justice on behalf of the victims of heinous crimes, what is it interested in?

For one thing, eighteen members of the House Judiciary Committee are concerned about protecting the “rights” of criminal aliens.

H.R. 1452, ludicrously named “The Family Reunification Act of 2002″ would repeal mandatory detention of criminal aliens and create a loophole that would allow certain criminal aliens to avoid deportation. Those already deported could return to the U.S. to pursue reinstatement.

Among those who would benefit from H.R. 1452, which passed Committee, are those convicted of assault, arson, robbery, child pornography, alien smuggling and document fraud.

California Congressmen who voted yes on this outrageous legislation are Darrell Issa, Adam Schiff, Maxine Waters and Zoe Lofgren.

Unfortunately he has it right when it comes down to doing it for the votes…

House Democratic Leader Richard Gephardt has a more preposterous idea–an amnesty for 10 million illegal aliens. Because so many millions live in the U.S. illegally, any amnesty would absolutely include terrorists and criminals.

This, of course, is much less important to Gephardt than the prospect of Latino votes for Democratic candidates.

Here’s the sad summary of this column. When Mexico wants something from the U.S. (driver’s licenses and in-state tuition for illegal aliens, consular identification cards, amnesty) waves of delegations come north to lobby hard. The U.S. government snaps to attention.

But if the U.S. wants something from Mexico as basic as the extradition of a cop-killer, we get the cold shoulder.

As for all of that talk from President George W. Bush and the other transparent phonies in D.C. about Homeland Security, you can forget it.

Votes count more.

And I think he is right.
Votes count more…..