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Audacity of Truth
Gaffetastic:
Vice President Joe Biden had his “oops” moment Wednesday speaking in a 49er-crazed SF when he told a crowd at a city political fundraiser that “the Giants are on their way to the Super Bowl.” - SF Chronicle, 1-18-12
About those polls …
The GOP is tanking in the polls as a result of the trumped up Foleygate scandal, and as a result, the Dems and media are gleeful and more optimistic than ever that liberals will snag back control of Congress next month.
AJ Strata takes a look at those polls, and puts things in perspective for conservatives going into next month’s elections. Essentially he says to conservatives who might feel hesitant about voting this year: don’t stay home. Please vote.
Though there is some definite disappointment in the air with the Republican party, the best reason (in my view) to pull that lever for the R’s this November is Iraq. The thought of having the fate of Iraq rest in the hands of Democrats is enough to keep me awake at night. So is the thought of Democrats trying to impeach Bush over Iraq “lies” they know he didn’t tell – because they made the same or similar statements about Iraq as well over the years. House Democrats are salivating over the idea of impeaching Bush, even though Nancy Pelosi would like for people to think otherwise.
There is a lot at stake. Stop The ACLU is on the same wavelength, and has a roundup of other conservative bloggers who feel similarly.
Update: UGH (scroll).
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Polls… Schmolls
We are going to be deluged with them between now and November 8th. As we were indundated with them during the Clinton years. To the point of over saturation and their overall meaning of nothingness.
Democrats live, eat, think and drink by results of polls. Especially those whose outcome is fixed ahead of time. Republicans do not.
Republicans are also wise enough to know that the stakes are far too high to sit this election out!
Jack.
Sis, I love you, but the Foley scandal was not “trumped up.” Yes, the Democrats are going to demagogue it for all it’s worth (and then some), but this scandal is real and serious. Whether the Democrats were going to sit on it and release the information at the worst possible time for the GOP is irrelevant; the relevant fact is that the House Republican leadership knew that there were problems with Mr Foley even before the 2004 elections, and didn’t even bother to investigete them. The Republican leadership behaved just like the Catholic bishops: burying their heads in the sand, and trying to keep a lid on things, hoping it would all blow over.
It didn’t work well for the Church, and it didn’t work well for the Speaker.
This scandal is trumped up, Dana – when you’ve got Democrats like Patty Wettlering and others in the DNC who are outright lying about Foley by saying he targeted kids as if to say he was lurking on elementary school playgrounds, you better believe it’s been trumped up. I have made it clear that I think what Foley did was serious, and my comments about this scandal being trumped up don’t negate that.
Dana not laughably wrote, “but this scandal is real and serious. Whether the Democrats were going to sit on it and release the information at the worst possible time for the GOP is irrelevant”
Irrelevant? No. A crime? Yes. It is a crime if someone had knowledge of a crime and did not give the evidence to investigators. If Democrats did this they should be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. Including journalists. Republicans also. What Republicans are saying is that Foley was held accountable given the new evidence 10 days ago that came out.
Dana shows her ignorance on the issue by saying, “the relevant fact is that the House Republican leadership knew that there were problems with Mr Foley even before the 2004 elections
I’ll let you know that I’ll be open minded to hearing which Republican leader knew what and due to what evidence. Until you can prove your wild outlandish accusation you are lying. Why would you want to do that?
Here is some key points you might have missed in previous threads:
1) The FBI, 2 Newspapers, The Republican leadership all saw the email in question and found nothing actionable. There was not enough evidence in the email in question. Anything that can be said about the Republican leadership can be said about the 2 newspapers and ABC and the FBI.
2) Once the Instant Messages (IM’s) came out (from people who held onto them and can be held accountable) people like you are lying and saying that Republican leadership covered up, should’ve known, (even though the FBI and 2 newspapers and ABC wasn’t as smart as you freaks also) and that Republican leadership should step down.
Misinformation is what helped cause some on the conservative side to want to dump Hastert. But the facts are clear and the mud in the water is settling.
I’m really sorry about the name calling heree but I really hope you wake up and do the due diligence required on this topic because it is OLD and DUMB and the only thing left is for people like you to stop lying and stop smearing and come up with what you think are solutions to problems. Same old playbook eveeryday for you Democrats. Smear and accuse and use double-standards and hypocracy. Never will political discourse get better until this pattern stops. We will continue defending ourselves and the truth and facts. We will not submit.
Bak, the Dana who posted that message is a regular poster here – and he’s a conservative, FYI …
Sorry about the labeling. Hopefully Dana will do the research and/or answer the questions. As far as I can tell the accusations are false. Nothing I hate more than false accusations.
Baklava wants proof.
From The Washington Post:
And then this came out today:
Are we supposed to believe that Jeff Trandahl, the Clerk of the House, was contacted about something as potentially damaging as a Republican congressman saying or writing things that the pages found uncomfortable, and the clerk declined to tell the Speaker? If was assume that Mr Trandahl contacted Mr Hastert’s staff rather than the Speaker personally, are we expected to believe that a member of his staff would decide not to inform the Speaker about such a thing? Is there anyone who would believe such a thing would happen?
Are the Democrats taking advantage? Yup, sure are! Does that mean that the House leadership behaved anywhere close to responsibly? Nope, sure doesn’t!
They knew before the 2004 elections, before the 2002 elections, that there were problems with Mr Foley’s behavior. They might not have known the extent of the problems, but they took no efforts to investigate and find out!
This is remarkably similar to the actions of the bishops (and yes, I’m a Mass-every-Sunday cradle Catholic) in trying to sweep the problems with priests under the rug: don’t look too closely, believe your friends rather than check the evidence, think that they’re just misunderstood, and hope that if this crap stays buried long enough, it’ll just go away. Well, it didn’t go away, and the Church was hurt a lot worse when the revelations emerged and the actions of the bishops were exposed.
The House leadership did the same damned thing! They didn’t take action in 2002, when they were in no danger of losing control of the House, and they took no action in 2004, when they were in no danger of losing control of the House, and now it comes out, at a time when we might just lose control of the House, and it’s all because they didn’t do their duty!
I have more on this in Knowing when it’s time to go and Speaker Hastert: It’s time to go.
I happen to think the Foley scandal has been overblown as well. What exactly was the leadership supposed to do? So far there is no crime, and while the ick factor is there I am not sure there are even grounds for expulsion or censure. I am glad Foley is gone, but I think we should keep all this in perspective.
As for the polls, wait and see. Polls can be very misleading and the elctions are a few weeks away. I will vote for the Republicans this year because I do not want to cut and run from Iraq and because I do not want two years of investigations and impeachment hearings.
None of that proves Hastert knew about any inappropriate IMs, Dana.
Arguing that “Hastert knew” is almost like arguing “Bush knew” about 9-11 before it happened. It can’t be proven, and in the case of Bush we know it’s not true, and with Hastert, I’m betting he didn’t know the full story, either.
Dan wrote, “They might not have known the extent of the problems, but they took no efforts to investigate and find out!”
Nobody (including 2 newspapers, the FBI, Republican leadership), thought the content in the emails (yes the media did their job with you and help you with confusion – please get unconfused) were actionable with a further investigation.
You are correct that they “might not have known the extent of the problems” and then you some how think that investigations were warranted based on the information that was knows to all those groups of people. You are mistaken. It is easy to be a Monday Morning quarterback. It’s how liberals operate in a post Iraq invasion atmospere drumming up lying everday and “see another soldier died” rhetoric. It doesn’t make you look smarter Dana by posting this article that I already saw. Nobody knew the extent of the problem until 10 days ago when the IM’s came out. And again if the IM’s were held by anybody they can be held accountable for a CRIME.
Dana makes a fales accusation with an analogy saying, “This is remarkably similar to the actions of the bishops (and yes, I’m a Mass-every-Sunday cradle Catholic) in trying to sweep the problems with priests under the rug:”
Go back to the alleged emails Dana. Look at the content and come back to us and PLEASE TELL US what was actionable… Please. People have confused you.
The catholic bishop and priest scenario is not analogous because there were bishops and preists and cardinals who KNEW of a crime (not just an email asking for an 18 year old’s photo for jimminy cricket’s sake) and yet the bishops and cardinals moved priests around to other parishes. Full disclosure for me : my daughters are in CCD classes as we speak. It’d be nice if false accusations were stopped. Especially from people who are supposed to be on our side.
Dana wrote, “The House leadership did the same damned thing!
I’m sorry. Which emails said what making things actionable? I’m sorry. What crime was reported?
Dana wrote, “and it’s all because they didn’t do their duty!”
Do their duty of what based on what exact information. Please tell us all exactly what phrase in what email would’ve promted you to do what? Remembering the FBI, 2 newspapers and the Republican leadership is in the same boat. Why do I love Dennis Prager? Because he strives for clarity. I love clarity Dana. Please provide it. I’ll be glad to bend based on new information.
Baklava wrote:
I’m certain that you understand the difference between what was actionable and what ought to have triggered an investigation, an investigation deeper than just taking Mr Foley’s word for things.
Mr Foley was a closeted homosexual,¹ not in any sort of permanent relationship. He was on a committee specifically for the protection of abused and exploited children. And then the House leadership was informed, as early as 2001, that he was writing e-mails that at least one page found to be strange and uncomfortable, enough so that he contacted his sponsoring congressman.
Good God, anyone in Mr Foley’s position, were he innocent of anything smarmy, should have been able to see that such an e-mail was sending up a red flag, and never sent another. And the Speaker of the House should have seen that red flag, when presented to him, and decided that at least an investigation was merited.
In 2001 or 2002 or even 2003, Mr Hastert might have thought that an investigation would show that nothing was amiss, but he had no way to know without an investigation. By 2003, he had not only Representative Kolbe’s presentation, through the clerk in 2001, but the clerk notified again in 2003 that something was fishy. The Speaker ignored more than one red flag here!
Mr Hastert almost certainly had no intention of protecting a potential sexual predator; had he known just what Mr Foley was doing, he’d probably have taken action early on. But when presented with what should have been alarming information that Mr Foley might be trouble, he chose to ignore the problem, to do nothing, and hope that nothing would come of it. And now he has been lying about what he knew and when he knew it.
You can defend his actions and say that he did nothing wrong and that the Democrats are to blame for demagoguing this issue — and when you wake up on November 8th to hear that Nancy Pelosi will become the Speaker of the House you’ll know just how much good defending what even you would certainly admit looks bad (if it didn’t look bad, the Democrats couldn’t demagogue it) has done.
_____________
¹- Closeted in that he had not come “out,” but it was apparently not much of a secret in Washington.
Our beautiful blogmistress wrote:
I have not argued that the Speaker knew exactly what was going on; I have said that he had been presented, more than once, with information which suggested that something could be wrong and that an investigation was merited — and that he did nothing.
Terrye wrote:
If there were no grounds for either expulsion or censure, why are you glad that he’s gone?
The man resigned almost as soon as his actions were revealed; he, at least, knew that the jig was up!
As for “What exactly was the leadership supposed to do?,” they were supposed to lead! That’s what being a leader means, that’s what asking for a leadership position means you say you will do.
1) When was he presented with any info and 2) wasn’t this matter taken up with multiple people in leadership positions, including Hastert’s chief of staff and the clerk of the House?
Where is the evidence that “Hastert knew” that “something was wrong”, Dana? So far you have presented nothing that indicates he did, just speculated that because certain people in key positions close to Hastert had an idea that Foley was bad news, that Hastert knew “something was wrong” too.
Dana wrote, “I’m certain that you understand the difference between what was actionable and what ought to have triggered an investigation”
No. It’s exactly what I’m saying. No action was taken other than telling Foley to cut it out. None by the FBI, 2 newpapers nor the leadership. No action. An investigation would be an action. There was NOTHING Dana in the email that was actionable. This is why I asked you Dana which phrase in which email do you think was cause for action. On which phrase would you have launched an investigation? This is about your judgement Dana because you have turned Monday Morning quarterbacking (along with others in the media) into a method in which to attack somebody unfairly.
Dana wrote irrelevant statements as to the assertion of a cover up, “Mr Foley was a closeted homosexual,¹ not in any sort of permanent relationship. He was on a committee specifically for the protection of abused and exploited children.”
Which one of those statements is cause for an investigation as to a crime being committed?
Dana then wrote without the same clarity that I’m trying to get to here, “And then the House leadership was informed, as early as 2001, that he was writing e-mails that at least one page found to be strange and uncomfortable,”
Dana…. which phrase in which email was casue for action by the FBI, 2 newspapers and the Republican leadership? You will not point to the phrase that would’ve caused you poor judgment (chronologically speaking) in launching an investigation. Was it asking for the picture of the 18 year old? Please share with us Dana.
Dana wrote, “And the Speaker of the House should have seen that red flag, when presented to him, and decided that at least an investigation was merited.”
With what phrase in the email? It’s ok to disagree. But please for once answer the question. You are allowed to say that you would’ve taken DRASTIC steps (poor judgement in my opinion) based on a phrase that alarmed you. But my judgment is in line with 2 newspapers , the FBI and the leadership who did not see enough to JUMP. Now you are second guessing (monday morning quarterbacking) and attacking somebody which we could all do given the information of IM’s (new info).
Dana wrote, “You can defend his actions and say that he did nothing wrong and that the Democrats are to blame for demagoguing this issue”
Nope. You too. Mud works in all sorts of situations that demand clarity.
Dana wrote, “As for “What exactly was the leadership supposed to do?” they were supposed to lead!
They did. Once presented with concrete info (as we all were) he was removed. Not like Democrat leadership with Stubbs and Clinton and others. Direct your outrage appropriately Dana and I’d start to back your words 100%.
I suppose words mean little to nothing these days…
I should’ve posted this tidbit last post: