Lee, if you come back, this is WHY WE NEED GUNS.

In Lee’s defense, in the UK the Conservative party is for gun control. In many ways they are conservatives like us, but not about guns.

The fact is Lee, and those who believe in gun control, believe that guns as an artifact have special powers that cause people to commit crime. If the gun did not exist, people wouldn’t be tempted.

Conservatives on this side of the pond recognize that human beings control their own minds, and guns don’t make us do anything.

The funny thing is – I wonder if having a car makes them want to drive, or having a refrigerator makes them want to freeze. Same logic.

And I’m still awaiting that trial where the criminal claims ‘the gun made me do it’. Why not? He’d be laughed out of court – but it’s the same argument gun control advocates use ad nauseum.

MK over at mksviews also has a story Lee might be interested in involving how well mass immigration works with gun control in the UK. Overwhelmed police are at a loss on how to control the crime wave.

So Lee – we have your answers – we need guns to stop the criminals who would hurt us. The court system cannot make us un-dead. And we see how well gun control is working out for you.

ever hear of an armed person shooting up a gun show?

Or, say, an NRA meeting?

Criminals aren’t all completely stupid. When they want to commit mass mayhem, they’ll seek out places where they know the people are defenseless.

Good riddance to bad rubbish(Lee).

All I’m saying is ditch the shooters

and here is as good a reason to have guns as any. Notice how uncivilized he got and how dictitorial he became when his logic continued to be refuted.

The very fact that if someone who was trained to use a hand gun was in that auditorium then perhaps there would have only been 1 death, not 7, and that right there is the only justification I have to give to Lee for gun ownership. Evil exists, and evil men will find the means to do harm to good people, even if they have to make the guns themselves, they will find a way.

Also, Lee, you are the one not discussing fairly. When Switzerland’s low crime rate was brought up in this dicussion, and the fact that citizens are soldiers in that country. You prattled on about the Swiss being attacked by an outside force. Your observation is pointless and silly. We are talking about a country that has assault weapons readily available, and violent crimes are minimal. It justifies the ownership of such weapons.

To answer your question, do I have to look further than Cambodia. 30 years ago the Kamer Ruge subjected the citizens to horrible crimes if the people had been armed, that would not have happened. Now let’s look at Burma, how many crimes against humanity are going on right now?? And would those crimes be going on if the citizens were armed?? Civilized nations can devolve into chaos in a matter of days. Govenments come and governments go, but this country has been a strong voice in this world precisely because it’s citizens are armed, and pose a threat to any invading military.

Lastly Lee, this man carried out his actions using a shotgun and a 9MM. So apparently there were no real assault weapons present. So yet again, your question is moot at best, and really doesn’t matter to this situation. I suggest you rethink you ideas of why we need guns, especially since the ban in England has only resulted in more crime and more intursion of government into people’s daily lives. How many cameras have gone up in London in the last 10 years?? Half a million?? I think the real question is, why do you need all those cameras??? – Lorica

First, if Lee can show us how he’s come up with a no-gun solution that’s 100% effective at keeping weapons out of the hands of the criminals, I’ll listen. Unless he can do that, he’s just declaring open season on law-abiding citizens for criminals. Guns in the hands of non-criminals do not cause a problem.

Second, guns in the hands of citizens can save lives. Lee’s forgotten the church shootings only last December in Colorado – where more carnage was stopped by a security guard who happened to be carrying her privately-owned gun.

Third, Lee might want to reflect on why it is that one of the first things dictatorships do is take his advice and ban privately owned firearms. Hitler did it, communists do it whenever they seize control, etc. An armed populace is a free populace.

Finally, extend Lee’s ideas beyond people to nations. The lefists love to gush about disarmament, and how we can bring on the millenium if we’d all just disband our defense forces – essentially make the planet a “gun-free” zone. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows where that would lead, human nature being what it is. Lee ought to be grateful that Chruchill didn’t turn Britain into a gun-free zone in 1940.

For someone who claims to be a “conservative”, Lee’s wandered quite a bit down the socialist, minimum-freedom path.

Assault rifles are used in less than 1% of all crimes. Let me repeat that: Less than 1%

Remember the North Hollywood shootout in L.A.? Where two drugged up, machine gun toting psychos kept the police at bay firing thousands upon thousands of rounds of ammunition. The police had to raid a gun store to get weapons to fight back. Why? Because someone, somewhere said “What do the police need rifles for? They’ve got pistols and shotguns!”
This incident occurred in the middle of the Clinton “gun ban”.

Does anyone NEED a gun? I certainly think so. I have the prospect of facing someone with a gun every time I go to work, sometimes on more than one occasion, and I’ll be the first to tell you than banning guns WILL NOT WORK.

Saved 100′s

Armed customer

Unnecessary in a civilized society, really? How then doess your civilized society explain your gang related violence? Oh, maybe its because there really are bad people out there, even in a civilized society.

“Ditch the shooter” I would love to. But I can’t because you won’t let me carry a gun. Let’s look at it my way first. If I could carry at school, I’d ditch him with one shot. Let’s see, He shoots ONE person, I shhot him, end of story. Now your way, shooter kills until he runs out of ammo or cops arrive 10 – 15 later, multiple deaths. all the while you’re crapping in your pants, saying but this is a gun free zone, why is this guy doing this, there should be a law, blah blah blah”

Yes, so it can be a safe haven for criminals to do their dirty work unopposed. You are a criminals wet dream come true.

Lee wrote, “You guys talk about goverment as if they are some alien force.”

Government must be restricted. It’s how our country was founded (unfortunately it has ignored the constitution lately) It has the power to take property, income, rights away and will do so if we let it. People have been savaged by government economically. Private property rights, free speech and the right to bear arms are essential to this country.

It’s ok that you don’t understand. Not many from Europe do? I worked with a French guy for 2 years who had no concept of our beliefs.

Lee wrote, “All I’m saying is ditch the shooters.”

Yes. Consequences for the criminal shooters… Rioters… rapists… thugs… That we can get behind.